Hammocking

[shoebox185]

Tony
I understand from some of your posts you use a hammock. I purchased off of ebay a Hennesey Hammock. I have used my hammock in spring and fall and both times I got cold. Both times the temps didn't come close to my bag rating. Do you have any suggestions on how to stay warm? Summer doesn't seem to be a problem. Anyone else can chime in also. I seem to remember we may have touched on this subject before  but the cold issue didn't come up. I also seem to remember there wasn't any hangers in the group then.
Merry Christmas to All
shoebox

[Tony]

I, too, have a HH ULA.  I also have some cheap-o hammock I bough on-line in 2008 for $15 and have yet to use.  I was going to use it on my last trip until I was told to take the dog along.

The short answer to your question is...

You need to insulate your backside.

The sleeping bag just won't provide insulation on your back as it is crushed by your body weight.  Easiest thing to do is try sleeping on top of your sleeping pad (the one you use when you sleep on the ground).  You might have to wrestle with it a bit, but it does work.  I suggest wearing at least a base layer from the waist up if you lay directly on the pad, otherwise you might stick to it.  The key is learning how to get into the hammock and "on" the pad at the same time.  It can be difficult.  I don't worry about the bag so much on entry.  I just shove it toward the head-end of the hammock.  I do, however, try to get my butt in the correct location on the pad as I sit down in the entrance of the hammock.  Then I lay back centering the pad at the same time.  And finally drape the bag over top.  I have a home-made down quilt I made a few years ago.  It has a small foot pocket in it that runs up to just below my knees.  I stick my feet inside it.  But my pad is only covers mid-thigh through my shoulders (I'm 5'10").

The wider the pad the better as you'll find that the sides of your shoulders may still get a bit cold with a 20" pad.  Though I have done fine using my Prolite 3 S.  I've also use a trimmed down (mostly in length) wal-mart closed-cell blue foam pad (~$8).  And I have a really wide, but thin, pad I purchased from oware.  It is OK, but it tends to get creases in it during the night (because it is thin) which can become uncomfortable.

If I suspect it will be warmer, I use a thiner bag (WM MityLite), which, too, has a foot pocket.  And I might sleep on a thinner pad.  Truck sized windshield reflectors (24-26" wide, but only 1/8" thick) are nice for the warmer trips but you have to make sure you are wearing a shirt or cover the pad with something like a neat sheet, otherwise you will wake up with a wet back.

The ultimate in hammock back insulation comfort is an Underquilt.  Basically a sleeping bag like thing you put outside but under your hammock.  I plan on buying an underquilt with my Xmas money (I'd make one, but the material costs are just under what it cost to buy one from some of the smaller cottage manufactures).  Probably a 3-season 2/3 length down version.

The long answer that will make your hammock purchase turn into a full-blown addiction is...

www.hammockforums.net -- You've been warned!  If you start using the phrases "Whoopie Sling", "Dutch Clip" and "AmSteel Blue" in everyday conversations, don't blame me.

[shoebox185]

LOL Thanks I may try some of your Ideas this spring.
Shoebox

[Andy]

Use a 25" pad since the hammock wraps around you some and compresses the bag/quilt insulation at the sides some too. Also, try a second 40" x 25" pad put cross-wise at your shoulders. A Speer Segmented Pad Extender (SPE) might help. A down underquilt is the best solution.

This page has very helpful temperature ratings:

http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/SPE.htm

I went back to the ground because I got of fiddling with hammocks and feeling like I was caught in a net.

Edit: Using your bag as a quilt might actually be warmer (and more convenient) once you have adequate bottom insulation.

[Tony]

I went back to the ground because I got of fiddling with hammocks

Ground setups are definately lighter and simpler, but I have such are hard time sleeping with such minimal gear, especially on short trips.  Once I get to the 3rd night out, ground sleeping works fine for me.  I just don't fall to sleep on my back so much at home, laying on my side makes my shoulder go numb.  I prefer to sleep on my stomach.  Even at home I sleep on the ground quite often (no padding other than our 15yo carpet), but then I have 3 large pillows, large heavy blankets and I don't have to wear a hat and clothes to stay warm.

and feeling like I was caught in a net.

I get that feeling more when I sleep on the ground than I do in my hammock.  I hate it when I can't move my legs around and/or pull up one knee.

In the end, I go back and forth between ground and hammock setups.  Depending on the trip.  Longer trips I tend to ground sleep.  Trips with my kids I ground sleep.  Shorter solo trips, I take the hammock.  Terrain maters as well, the AT is a great hammock trail, the PCT and CDT, no so much.

[doc]

It doesn't matter so much to me because I will probably always be on the ground. But does anyone pitch a tarp above them at night when you know it's not going to rain? Or do you prefer to sleep more or less totally exposed? I can't see it keeping much heat in, but I don't know.

doc

[Andy]

Tony:
I'm mostly a stomach sleeper, and that's part of the reason I find hammocks less comfortable. I know bridge hammocks will allow stomach sleeping, but then things get even heavier, more expensive, and more complicated. Do you have a bridge hammock, or just adapt by sleeping on your back or side? Why can't you move around on the ground--bivy bag?

doc:
If temps are 50 or below, I almost always want something to block even a breeze. If the sky is clear and visible, I try to pitch the tarp so that I have a good view. A tarp which keeps heat in would also keep too much moisture in, unless the air is warm and dry.

[DAN]

My back kinda hurts just reading these posts about hammocks.
I get/got use to ground sleeping by forcing myself to sleep with my thinner Therm-a-rest hiking mat & sleeping bag during the summer weekends and vacation days on the Maumee River.....so by October hiking, I have put in close to 25 days on the ground. When we vacation there, I sleep sometimes 7 - 10 nights in a row in my 4 man tent....with ear plugs due to midnight drunk boaters.
I have stuck with simple free-standing 2 pole tents for fast set up, & no guy lines...in the forest. I use the rain fly all the time for the insulating value during October & March hiking. I did sleep with my tent open and head & chest exposed at Shawnee camp 5 once. I slept 10 hours after hiking 17 miles the day before from the TH to Camp3, then slogging my way up to camp 5 on day 2....exhausted!
Also while hiking, I usually am physically tired & ready for bed due to hitting the road for the TH at 5:30am. I kinda find myself trying to find a reason to stay up past 8:30pm- 9:00pm....I've been fortunate that I can sleep pretty good. I do however wake up numerous times cause I will get cold spots with my October & March hiking. A recent backpacker mag addressed the sleep issue, and says you need to follow the same patterns and rituals you do at home.....reading before bed like you do at home, or what ever. Of course, stay away from caffeine and stuff like that. ......I really wonder if any of us ever really are 100% comfortable out there in the sense of getting top notch sleep in like you do at home. I guess the starting point to solve hiking sleeping problems, would be to first solve your at-home sleeping problems. My wife is hooked on the fan noise in the background.....by late November, she stopped that....kinda cold. I got her a white noise, or babbling brook, or ocean surf machine thing for Christmas from Brookstone at Polaris mall which I now regret....she will get hooked on that. Ear plugs begin to hurt after several nights of use!!! >> DAN

[Tony]

It doesn't matter so much to me because I will probably always be on the ground. But does anyone pitch a tarp above them at night when you know it's not going to rain? Or do you prefer to sleep more or less totally exposed? I can't see it keeping much heat in, but I don't know.

I have yet to cowboy camp.  I typically setup my tarp just to avoid dew.  Besides, I sort of like setting up camp.  It helps me relax.

[Tony]

Do you have a bridge hammock, or just adapt by sleeping on your back or side?

Nope, I have a HH ULA and some generic "gathered-end" hammock.  Sleeping on your back in a hammock is nothing like sleeping on your back on the ground.  The total body support makes a huge difference.  Though often I sleep about 50/50 back/side in my hammock.  Something you can't quite do on the ground.

Why can't you move around on the ground--bivy bag?

Sleeping bag (its really a quilt) is too restrictive.  Even when I camp out with my son at Indian Guides camp outs in cabins and I use my nearly rectangular WM MityLite I feel all tied up at times.  Though the fact that I have to wear a shirt doesn't help either.

It really is a combination of things, not just the bag that makes it tough for me to sleep on the ground the first couple of nights.  Restrictive bag, wearing clothes (if its cold, I just might have 4 layers on my torso, leg-wear isn't a bother), wearing a hat (or worst a balaclava), sleeping on back, crappy pillow, etc.  Not one thing.  Sleeping in the hammock removes most of those issues.  Sleeping on a hard surface isn't the issue either.

I guess if I were to start sleeping at home with a shirt, sweatshirt and a hat on, all while using a single light-n-fluffy blanket while sleeping on an ironing board size bed, with a single pillow, sleeping on the ground while backpacking wouldn't prove to be as much of a transition from sleeping at home.

[Andy]

I got an Exped Downmat 7 (20" wide) for winter backpacking this Christmas, intending it for ground use. I decided to try it in my hammock a few nights ago, and I think I'm going to have to give hammocks another chance. It's hard to beat being able to camp anywhere there are two adequate trees, regardless of ground slope or drainage. I'm going to give hammocking a few trials in the backyard while we're finally getting some nice cool breezes after all of this warm weather. If I like it, I'll get one of the winter hammock tarps which gives better wind and blowing snow protection.

Twenty inches is a little narrow for hammock use, but I also got a 3/4-length (47" x 20") Ridgerest I'm going to put crosswise at my shoulders. This combined with a 0 F down mummy bag should keep me warm down to at least 0 F. I might get to test that out this weekend! The mummy bag is 600 fill down, and a little heavy at around 3 lbs, 12 oz, but who cares at temps like this?

[Tony]

Twenty inches is a little narrow for hammock use, but I also got a 3/4-length (47" x 20") Ridgerest I'm going to put crosswise at my shoulders.

Correct, a 20" pad is a bit narrow for a hammock, as the "pad" ends up wrapping around you slightly, so it needs to be wide enough to reach from front side of your shoulder, around your back, to the front-side of the other shoulder.  Typically 36"-40" is required.

Your idea will work as long as you find a way to keep the two overlapping pads at the correct angle with each other.  You are basically making a homemade Segmented Pad Extender.