New tent ordered!

[Camper Dan]

Well, I went and did it!    I just ordered the Moment by Tarptent this past Sunday afternoon.  I'd like to thank everybody for sharing their observations and opinions on shelter systems, as well as varied and sundry topics. 

I have subconsciously been evaluating tents for quite some time.  I've been reading reviews about Henry Shires' Tarptents, Six Moon Designs Solo Enhanced, as well as Gossamer Gear's The One.  The Moment is a recent offering and several things sold me on the design.  Weight, quietness, volume, space, interior height and ease of set up.

The weight of my current tarp arrangement is about 28 oz. with lines and stakes, but it offers no bug protection.  Now, generally, I have been doing trips in cooler to cold weather, so it has not been an issue.  But its been more by luck, than design, that it has worked out that way.  Any type of bug protection would be additional weight.  So, by going with the Moment I will only be gaining an ounce or two, figuring that after I seal the seams the 28.5 oz. rating will change a bit.  The comments I have read about the Spinnaker cloth material being noisier than silnylon( here and else where) also came into consideration, in spite of the weigh savings.  The size is also a consideration.  I feel comfortable with the dimensions of 18 sq. ft. floor space and a vestibule with a bit over 6 sq. ft., another plus is the 40 inch interior height, enough for me to be able to sit up.  I had also read many good comments regarding the ventilation and the volume of the interior.  I really was drawn to the Hilleberg Akto, but the weight threw me off.  I just hope the Moment does well in the rain, as it always seems to rain during my trips.     Then, the ease of set up required for the Moment.  Only two tent stakes required unless the need arises for the two additional guy lines ups it to four stakes.  Also, the Moment has its own tent pole.  When I do base camp trips, I generally backpack 3 to 6 miles and set up camp, then day hike from there.  That means that my trekking poles are not available to serve as tent poles, as they are out hiking with me.  I frequently use branches to support the tarp, but searching for and trying to fine tune a stick to get a taunt pitch on some of the currently available tents, well, kind of leaves me flat.  The less than two minute set up time is perfect in my mind.  Open the sack, extend/insert the pole, poke in two stakes, and you're done with it.   

I'll have more to comment on, of course, after I receive the tent and check it out.  My next trip isn't until Memorial Day weekend, so I'll have plenty of time to do just that, seal the seam, etc.

Again, thanks for taking the time to share your observations, suggestions, links, opinions, etc.

Dan 

[Stargazer]

You'll like the Moment, especially if you have to set up in the rain. At 28 oz., it's a bit heavy compared to some tents (the Lunar Solo is about 21 oz as I recall), but it goes up in about 2 minutes and you don't have to fuss with it to get a good pitch.

Slide in the central, flexible pole, stake the front, stake the back, throw your stuff in, and you're done.

The Lunar Solo trades low weight for inconvenience, five or six stakeout points that you have to keep fiddling with to get a taut pitch.

Also, the Moment sheds water and snow well because of it's design. The only time I got even a little wet was in a horrendous rainstorm at Tar Hollow. Every time a raindrop hit (big drops) I felt a tiny spray of water. Is the tent leaking, I asked. Nope. I had a bit of internal condensation. The drops hitting the outside of the tent were driving a bit of the condensation off the interior surface of the tent. So I put my Heetsheets emergency bivy over top of my sleeping quilt, and my sleeping bag and I were dry as a bone in the morning.

Stargazer

[Andy]

Good choice! I'm doing the tarp to tent switch soon too. The Moment is the tent I'd choose if I didn't need space for two and the ability to handle significant snowfalls.

[Camper Dan]

Thanks, guys, for the affirmations!    You plunk down your hard earned cash and pray all that you have read in your research has led you to a wise choice, with hope that said item will meet your expectations and serve your needs. 

I don't know where it will be used this May, but I may be taking it to The Dolly Sods in July, where it always rains.     I expect I won't get it until early to mid April.  I'll have plenty of time to inspect it, seal it and practice setting it up before my Memorial Weekend trip.

I already ordered some McNett SilNet seam sealer and their COTOL-240, which is a urethane cure accelerator and precleaner.   I've used it to prep seam areas and mix it in the sealer as a thinner.  It works great, as I've used it treating the seams on three of my tarps four years ago.  Great stuff.

Question for Stargazer: I believe I read somewhere that you have/had the Moment Tarptent.  Did you use a ground sheet of some sort?  I've been using some trimmed down sections of Eureka "Floor Saver" under my tarp setup.  They are a 6 mil gray plastic material.  I figure it would weigh about 4-5 oz. trimmed down for the Moment.  I've got that NeoAir mattress I am concerned about.    Also, did you put any seal sealer dots on the tent floor to keep things from sliding around too much?

Thanks, Dan   

[Stargazer]

>Question for Stargazer: I believe I read somewhere that you have/had the Moment Tarptent.  Did you use a ground sheet of some sort? 

I carry along a polycro groundsheet that weighs about 2 oz, but I rarely use it. The the Moment's silnylon floor is plenty tough. When I do occasionally use the groundsheet, I lay it inside the tent to prevent heavy rain from splashing up around the mesh near the ground. I also might consider using it inside if the ground is really rocky. I also carry a small slice of "Tenacious" repair tape in case the floor gets a cut in it when I have to set up on rocky ground, but I've never had to use it.

>I've got that NeoAir mattress I am concerned about.

I wouldn't worry too much. The flooring material on the Henry Shire Tarptents is plenty tough.   

Also, did you put and seal sealer dots on the tent floor to keep things from sliding around too much?

Good point. Yes, I do. I actually paint some serious stripes of seam sealer while I'm seam-sealing the tent.

I actually got caught in some light snow one weekend, to respond to a point Nigal made. The Moment sheds snow pretty well (and is pretty wind resistant) because of its shape. Set it up so that the narrow cross section is parallel to the wind. If you look at the Tarptent web site, you'll see a tent called the Scarp, a four-season tent. The Moment is actually similar in design and is listed as a 3+ season tent. I've been wanting to get a Scarp 1 for serious winter camping but don't have the scratch to do so.

Stargazer

[doc]

Alright. With my next over-nighter / multi-night trip not coming up until the fall, I've got some time to think about it. I bought a Cabela's XPG tent and love it, but, the carry weight is over 6 lbs. I'm coming to grips w/ the fact that I'm probably always going to carry a lot of water, and I want to cut my pack weight as much as possible. I've read all the great reviews about the tarptents. I'm interested in the Cloudburst 2, for 2 people, obviously. It looks a little roomy-er and just a few oz. heavier than the Squall 2, for $30 more. It's a big investment for a tent, and not the smartest financial move at the moment, but I dread getting that feeling in my back and shoulders again when it's over.

For those of you who have one, (I know Stargazer is big on them,) are they really as tough as they say they are? Are they as durable as they say w/ such a light weight? Do any of you regret investing that much into a tent? I guess I'm on the fence and looking for someone to give me a nudge one way or another. Yeah, it's expensive. But it's a 1 time expense, right? There's only 2 listed on e-bay right now and I'm a little leery of that. Is a new one worth the price??? Thanks for your opinions.

doc

[Tony]

For those of you who have one, (I know Stargazer is big on them,) are they really as tough as they say they are? Are they as durable as they say w/ such a light weight? Do any of you regret investing that much into a tent? I guess I'm on the fence and looking for someone to give me a nudge one way or another. Yeah, it's expensive. But it's a 1 time expense, right? There's only 2 listed on e-bay right now and I'm a little leery of that. Is a new one worth the price??? Thanks for your opinions.

I don't own a tarptent, I made my own 3+ person tarptent clone.   That said, I'm using the same material (silnylon).  You can see it (big yellow thing) in the pics I posted in the Dolly Sods thread.

I can't comment on the price as mine only cost about $50 in material, but it took me a few days to make it and countless design hours.  And it is still not perfect.  But I don't really care.  The material it quite durable as long as you aren't stupid with it.  If you put your tent on top of lots of pointy rocks, lay your pad on top and then jump on your pad, there is a good chance there will be a puncture in the floor.  If you place it too close to the fire you might get small holes in it from flying embers (though that is true with just about any tent).

But with a bit of good site selection and some preening, it is durable.  And you don't have to treat it like china doll.  But it probably wouldn't stand up to random 12yo if they were "in charge" of the tent.

Edit:  The biggest difference between your XPG and the Tarpent is that later is a single walled tent.  Which means condensation can be an issue.  You just have to learn to 1) deal with it. 2) sleep with the doors open, unless it is pouring outside 3) pick a site with a slight breeze 4) drop the old-school thought that your shelter is suppose to keep you warm.  Your bag keeps your warm, not your shelter.  The later keeps you dry, blocks _some_ of the wind and keeps bugs out (assuming it has netting).

That said, I've never found condensation to be an issue when we have 3 people sleeping inside my tent when it is raining on/off all night and we are wrapped in fog.  But when some folks see a few drops of water on the inside of their tent, they start to get a bit whinny.  I don't.

[Andy]

doc,

I just recently got the Scarp 2 and the huge 4-person Hogback (for when the whole family comes along) Tarptents. I haven't used them in the field yet, just setting up, configuring, and seam sealing. I'm very happy with my purchases, although I do still want to get a lighter Tarptent like the Moment for solo trips.

Tarptents are made from silnylon, which has these weaknesses:

1. Allows some misting through in a heavy rain.
2. Not very puncture or abrasion resistant.
3. Highly flammable.
4. Stretches when wet, such as at night when the humidity goes up.
5. Nylon deteriorates when exposed to sunlight.

Items 2, 3, and 5 shouldn't be a problem if you remember them and be cautious. Small areas can be patched by gluing a scrap of silnylon on with a thin layer of GE Silicone II caulk.

Stretching isn't too big of a deal if the tent has adjustable tensioners like Tarptents. But, you might still need to cinch it down more right before going to bed, or even in the middle of the night during a rain. Stargazer can hopefully give more info on his experience with this.

Some people never seem to experience misting, but others have major problems with it. I haven't experienced it under my silnylon tarp, but I'm coating the outside tops and outside floors of my Tarptents with a very diluted (1 part caulk to 5 parts mineral spirits) mixture of GE Silicone II caulk as described here:

http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Silnylon1/index.html

Coating the outside floors helps reduce the "sledding effect" on slopes, since the silicone caulk is somewhat tacky.

I admit that this is probably overkill, however.

It wouldn't surprise me to have to repair one of my Tarptents once every 3-5 years, and I can do that myself due to my experience making my own tarp and hammock.

Used gear you can't inspect is always a roulette game. You often don't really know what shape it's in until after the purchase. Even after inspection, you may not know that someone left it out in the desert sun for a week.

[doc]

Hmmm. Well you guys got me thinking. I give credit to you guys but I'm definitley NOT making my own tent or tarp/ hammock combo. My XPG stays pretty dry inside during all night down poors, which is nice. But I don't think some condensation would be a problem anyway, unless it was real bad. I've had a situation too where I had to set up the XPG closer to the fire than I wanted but, it took some flying ambers quite well and not a scratch. (Maybe I just got lucky.) What's the old boy scout rule, 10' between the tent and fire? If it was lighter I wouldn't even consider anything else.

So what I'm wondering is how much more of a threat of puncturing or tearing is there gonna be compared to other non silnylon tents? Doesn't sound like it's much worse than any tent that isn't old school canvas. If so, than it's really worth it cutting the carry weight from over 6lbs, down to just over 2 IMO. And I obviously don't throw my tent around like an angry cave man anyway. Interesting. I really appriciate the feedback. I'm still gonna sit on it for a few so feel free to keep the discussion going. Thanks

doc

[Andy]

Most tents are coated with polyurethane, which is somewhat fire-resistant. Silnylon is not fire-resistant at all.

If you're careful, only the floor is very likely to be punctured. Check the ground carefully, and use a polycro ground sheet if you want. Duct tape fixes a puncture in the field, and small ones can be fairly permanently repaired without sewing.

I think the weight reduction is worth not having a more durable tent.

[Stargazer]

Not much to add here except to say that a good, thorough seam sealing will help with the moisture problem. Also, set up where you can get a good cross wind blowing though the netting between the tent and the floor. Try not to set up too near water. The only time I got condensation was when I set up right on the lake at Burr Oak.

BTW, lately, I've moved on a bit to a cuben tent from Zpacks. I have a very nice Contrail I wouldn't mind parting with. I has a small tear on the hood above the grommet where you put your trekking pole. (The tear is purely cosmetic, but it could be fixed easily with a bit of Tenacious tape or a needle and thread.) $115, including shipping.

I also have a Squall 2, lightly used, in great shape for $150, including shipping.

Please PM or email me if you're interested.

Stargazer

[doc]

Forgot about your used gear Stargazer. I bought from you in the past and was pleased. I'm still debating it for the time being, but I'll definitely let you know if I'm interested. But don't wait if someone else contacts you. I'll prob for quite a bit more info about it if I'm serious.

Based on what I can gather, the lighter pack weight out ways a stronger (but not all that much) tent. It doesn't sound like keeping dry will as big a problem as long as I do some simple things and be aware of where I set up. (Which I am anyway.) And Tony states that you don't have to treat it like a China Doll so maybe it's not as fragile as I imagine. My XPG isn't invincible, but I feel very confident w/ it. In the end it may just come down to $. AHHH. Decisions, decisions!

doc

[Andy]

This was my rationale for spending money on new tents:

Once you've stayed in your $200 tent 3 nights, you've already saved $100 on a hotel stay! 

[doc]

I like it, Andy! Whatever you have to do to not feel guilty about spending the big bucks. But after thinking about it for a few, I'm gonna wait. I've only had 1 over-night BP experience w/ my 6 lb XPG and I just think it deserves at least another shot. I have lightened my pack in other ways since, so, maybe it won't be so bad. But if it is, than I know where to go from there. If I had extra cash flow than I would just buy one anyway.

Another reason I was so interested is b/c a tarp tent would free up some space inside. The XPG pack size is approx almost 8" x 18" I think. And w/ a 14oz 20" x 72" Therma-Rest foam pad inside, there's little room for much else in a 3900 cu. in. pack. Just stuffing here and there around those 2 things. But that's good too b/c it helps prevent over-packing. Not going out until Sept. / Oct., so, I'll see then.

Thanks for all the advise!

doc